A Continuation of sorts to this: “Let’s Talk about Sm4sh Counters”.

Here I talk about custom moves for the Sm4sh Counters, but more specifically about the Tweaked Counter ideas i mention on the link above.

If i don’t give it any tweaks I’ll write (Vanilla) right beside the counter’s name to make it easy to tell.

More under the Read More!

Here you go!

  • Marth.


2 different counter frame timings. One for when used directly on start
up and the other comes a little later after it. Still the same Window as before,
but the first could potentially allow him to reflect projectiles. The
timing would be similar to a perfect shield, except he is better
rewarded for landing it perfectly. While in both timings he slashes back, The latter window doesn’t have a reflecting
effect nor does it have a multiplier anymore.

Critical Counter.

Marth holds his stance with a single frame timing. It works the same was the sm4sh Counter with a x1.2 multiplier, but has no reflecting properties.

Iai Counter.

Marth strikes the opponent while moving behind them at lightning speed. Inflicts more damage, knocks foes behind him, and is much quicker, but the trigger window is stricter. Has an electric effect.

  • Ike.


Same deal as Marth’s, would give him 2 different counter frames. The first
is just a “get off me” option with a weak kick, while the latter one uses
the sword slash that packs a punch with a x1.2 multiplier 

Paralyzing Counter.

Ike’s counter stuns the opponent, allowing for a follow up attack.
However, it has a narrower hit window. the higher the foe’s percent, the
longer the stun. The sour spot Kick Counter is absent. Instead he uses his blade to hit right away similarly to Marth. Sour spot doesn’t have the paralyzing effect to it though.

Smash Counter.

When the Counter is triggered, Ike will perform a counterattack after a
delay rather than instantly, but the attack deals more damage and
knockback as well as possessing a larger hitbox. Due to the delay of this move
opponents can easily avoid it, especially if used in the air, so it’s
best used against moves that have a lot of endlag. It has roughly a 1.5x multiplier and as a tweak i would make it so that it breaks shields. The sourspot Kick Counter addition applies here as well, but the kick has the same properties of the normal counter.

  • Lucina.

-Counter (New!)

Counter with mobility. When attacked, Lucina responds with a Stab while
moving forward to pass her foe. It also has heavy damage on shield which
allows her to counter a mid/point blank projectile and apply pressure
to campers.

-Easy Counter.

Lucina holds her stance longer, and strikes with less power. Has decreased damage scaling, but has a wider trigger window. It also travels a slightly shorter distance.

-Iai Counter.

Lucina strikes the opponent while moving at lightning speed.
Inflicts more damage, travels a larger distance, knocks foes in front of her, and is much quicker, but
the trigger window is stricter. Has an electric effect.

  • Roy.


Roy poses and then retaliates against any attacks
that hit him during
its counter frames at the very beginning of the move with a blazing
slash. Damage and knockback dealt
depends on the move that is countered, with a damage multiplier of
As a tweak, i would not give it any multiplier. He is a “Young Lion” so i
prefer a focus on him dealing damage rather than defensively catching
people off guard with a powerful counter.

-Armor Counter (New!)

It’s Counter Frames don’t make him invincible. Instead he gains super
armor and takes the hit head on. Roy then retaliates against any attacks
that hit him with damage and knockback dealt depending on the countered
move. Here it would make sense to have a damage multiplier to compensate.

-Fierce Counter (New!)

Roy poses and retaliates
normally. Damage and Knockback is less, but his attack releases a flame
shock wave that surrounds him. This extra range allows him to counter
effectively those with long range normal attacks like Shulk or those
behind the hitbox of the normal counter’s slash. It may even hit those
who use projectiles in mid-close range.

For more on possible Roy Custom ideas – Click Here!

  • Little Mac.

-Slip Counter

Dodges backward to avoid a hit, then counterattacks with an invincible
uppercut. In the air, this can be used to either give him a better
recovery or hinder him due to its slide and the direction his opponent
is at.
An idea involves taking the multiplier away and instead have it deal with
changing knock back depending on his percentage. As an example, At 0% he would
deal something like 5% from any hit while at 150% his counter becomes a
powerful option dealing 20%.
This means that it’s the same whether
you counter a weak jab or a Falcon Punch, but at higher percentages you
will be getting mid percentage KOs from countering even Jabs.
He does not get this benefit from doing an aerial
counter though.

-Compact Counter (Vanilla)

Less damage and knockback, but is faster overall and also provides him
with a faster recovery overall as well. Can be used to initiate

-Dash Counter (Vanilla)

The window doesn’t last as long, but he dashes forwards upon countering,
giving him a far better recovery than before if used in the air.

  • Lucario.

-Double Team.

I would remove his counter and instead turn it into it’s Project M
incarnation where Lucario dashes forward quickly. This would allow him
to avoid projectiles to quickly get in, making projectile matches rely
less on out camping and more on outmaneuvering and punishing. It also
gives Lucario a safer approach for mix ups.

-Glancing Counter

Dodges attacks the same way project M does, but allows Lucario to produce a hitbox (albeit a weaker one) even if him is not attacked. It activates a little slower making it possible to hit him out of it. The traveling hitbox hits like a Fox illusion though it pushes foes forward for possible follow ups.

-Stunning Double Team

Works like Project M’s Double Team, with the added effect of being able to stun opponents.
The stun lasts a very short period of time even at mid high percentages, finding more uses in knocking people out of their moves (Like Mega Man’s Neutral Attack/A button “Lemons”). It doesn’t avoid projectiles.

  • Greninja.


Greninja enters a defensive stance. If attacked, it disappears with a
Substitute doll or log taking its place before countering with a flying
kick upon reappearance. The kick’s direction can be input while Greninja
has vanished. The Doll and the log don’t serve much of a purpose other than for
aesthetics, so i would rather have them disappear faster while having no
hurtbox for interactions.

-Exploding Attack (Vanilla)

Instead of countering, Greninja vanishes and reappears with an explosion.

-Substitute Ambush (Vanilla)

Greninja disappears for a longer amount of time and hits harder upon reappearing.

  • Shulk.


A counter attack with the longest counter window in the game that has two different attacks depending on whether the player holds down the forward button. In the regular slash Shulk takes a step back and takes a large horizontal swing forward, capable
of hitting multiple enemies with its range, while also having access to a faster dashing
slash in the ground. It no longer bypasses shields and the multiplier is toned down to x1.0 with the normal slash & x1.2 for the dash slash.

-Dash Vision.

Shulk takes a big step forward and the counter’s range is extended. The counter is faster, but lacks power.
For it’s tweak, he always performs the slash that crosses up opponents (The one that is only available on the ground for the normal version)

-Power Vision

Shulk counters an attack with greater power. However, the attack is
slower and if used too much, the counter will become less and less
It has an x1.3 multiplier, but it always performs the normal slash with no slowing down effect so it can be dodged.

  • Palutena & Swordfighter

-These two don’t get variations in their counters (beyond the one tweak i gave them to their base ones) simply because all their Down B customs are different from each other.

You can read a deeper analysis of Vanilla Sm4sh Counters by clicking Here!

For NEW counter ideas Click here!


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